What do I need to know about katoeys?
(article from nanaplaza.com)
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Any *real sexy* glammed-up mini-dressed howlingly sexy women are probably male... but the chances are that you may never know as they come in 3 flavors (believe me!!!) 1. Ladyboy. No op at the top or bottom 2. Top op. Tits (brilliant ones usually!) and a dick. 3. Full op. Top and bottom. Ladyboys are the same as boys or ladies.... EXCEPT that everything is intensified... I mean... what hopes and expectations do YOU have? What do THEY have? Marry? Kids? Family and future? They cling to affection, and are loving and faithful (well, mostly!) at the show of it, and sensitive and over-reactive at the lack of it. The quickest way to get a black eye in BKK is to take the piss out of a katoey. If not a black eye, then beer all down you and a LOT of shouting! Stay graceful! If one throws him/herself all over you... don't be disdainful or mocking. No matter how homophobic a person is, unless they're an utter asshole, there is room for a gentle, smiling denial. Don't degrade yourself by being afraid or dismissive. They're people... much as you or I... that is, unless YOU'RE an asshole, in which case I'll be dismissive and mocking of you. I'd always heard they were vicious and would beat the crap out of you, but this is not true. They can have definite mood swings and because of that can be vicious, I suppose. If you are up & up with them & treat them nice then you will not get the 'crap beat out of you'. Then again, there are other hard liners who will say that the whole point is to bargain them down. To win a market negotiation. To throw it in their face that, no matter how much they spent on the surgery; no matter how much they spend on hairdressers and makeup, no matter how many hours they spend preening and grooming.... they still have less of a vagina than that of any provincial dog-ugly real girl. One who can naturally lubricate, and should get paid accordingly. Or better yet, get left behind on the dance floor. Let them screw each other, like they are used to doing. I personally do not feel this strongly but it has to be said that there is nothing like feeling your barfine's hard-on through her jeans. So how do I recognize katoeys? Thai ladyboy Of course it is considered indelicate going up to a girl and asking... "Oi, you! You a katoey or what?" So how do you find out then? The only reliable way (and its not consistently reliable) is to grope them a bit BEFORE you're committed. If they are coy about it... katoey. There again, have you ever known a bargirl to be COY? Not shy or modest... but under the table, out of sight, when no one's looking sort-of-coy? Of course this is assuming that they still have their genitals intact! I have seen katoeys dancing on a bar bottomless and guys are eating their "pussy". How are you going to tell by groping? If you pay attention, big hands, big feet, Adam's apple, sort of falsetto voice and a cutesy name "Melanie, Tiffany, etc." you will be able to spot them. I have an advantage in as much as I like really petite girls... damn few katoeys under 5' tall. On one of my earliest visits to BKK, my sweetie of the moment was professionally offended when I failed to detect a mixed gender dancer... She dragged me around the rest of the night saying: "This one, man, woman?" until my successful ID rate went from the initial 10% up to 80% or so. Once you get the hang of it, it's fairly easy to tell. After a couple more years in the scene, for the last 20% or so (the ones that it would take a DNA test to tell), I finally decided- "who cares". If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck (and gives great head), then it must be a "girl". A real test in Bangkok is to deal with a katoey as "she". The real katoeys (what the in the west is called a post-op TS) have chosen to be women; it's a hard road, and there's nothing to be gained by dissing them. I find it much easier to just think of my katoey friends as women, and not dwell too long on how they got there. If you find one that hasn't suffered too much abuse down that road, they can be really fun: pretty, feminine, and generally more intelligent than the average bar girl. I wouldn't always choose one for a bed partner, but they can be great party companions! Should I warn people when they are chatting up katoey? One time, I did it. I was at a late-night outdoor restaurant in Chiang Mai, watching an innocent, Midwestern looking guy in a t?te-?-t?te with a katoey. I knew he was in for a big unwanted surprise, and when he/she went to the bathroom, I told the guy. He thanked me profusely, and ten minutes later a full glass of Sprite was poured over my head. Long discussions ensued among my friends and bargirl companions. The Thai take is, it's none of your business. I think I was lucky to get away with only getting wet, and not cut or otherwise assaulted. I'm still not completely sure what is the right thing to do. I just feel like if it were me, I would like someone to let me in on the secret before I ended up in bed with a guy. I felt a kinship with my fellow hound and thought I was doing him a service, even though I had never met him. Big mistake! He could have been looking for a katoey, knew she was a katoey and didn't mind, knew her from past interaction and liked the interaction with the katoey, you never know. Her anger could have led to a more serious retribution. Consulting a friend of mine on the issue (whose wife is a "woman by choice, rather than birth") - he said they could get very nasty about people interfering with their 'work'. In Bangkok, don't be distracted by the women in Bobby's Deli across the road from Thermae. They are drop dead gorgeous...and are all men. (Well... male-ish in distant origin!) If you are happy here, go for it! The "katoeys" are probably the most glam and Westernised-looking... some real stunners. Tight dresses and high heels. The bargirls go straight into jeans (V. tight ones!) when they finish. They look for all the world like sexy schoolgirls taking a break (probably, they ARE!) As a rule I keep to myself. Winding up with a katoey is not the worst thing that could happen to a guy and makes for some humorous stories once the guy gets home. He'll know next time to check the sex. If you don't want someone with the same tool kit as yourself check out the toolbox. This can be done as part of the evening interaction, reaching down and giving a squeeze. Sometimes the toolkit has been removed and then you just have to rely on experience. Remember even old Bangkok hands are not accurate all the time. Sometimes it doesn't even matter. When in doubt and knowing that it might gross you out, leave and hit on someone else, there are plenty of real women in BKK. Granted the "ladyboy" issue, ahem, skirts a fine line. I suspect MOST of us, though probably not all would prefer real female company and heterosexual monkey business only. But a katoey's commitment to their role is pretty complete and often convincing. The especially attractive ones seem to be a litmus test for us in the areas of tolerance, sexual ambivalence and homophobia. To each their own. I know I don't mind hanging with the ladyboys, the non-larcenous ones can be fun. They're everywhere the farang tourists are & I don't see how one could enjoy spending any time at all in Thailand if one hated them. Thai ladyboy At first I had read about the ladyboys and was on the lookout for them. I wasn't going to fly 8,200 miles to have sex with the Thai version of Ru-Paul. But even armed with this knowledge, I wasn't prepared for HOW MANY ladyboys there are over there and how tricky it can be to spot them. Jesus! One night in King's Castle III in Patpong (or was it Queen's Castle III--the Singha played tricks with my memory), a very beautiful creature sat next to me and started the standard bargirl "interview". "Hello, what your name? Where you flom? You here work or holiday? Cola for me?". And I started to get a strange feeling about this person. Another girl (and this one was obviously ALL GIRL) sat down on the other side of me and I asked her if the one on my left was a ladyboy. She looked puzzled, so I said "katoey?" She busted out laughing. Yes, this was a ladyboy. Meanwhile, the katoey is whispering to me "I want to go with you -- sucking, massage, fucking -- I can make you come". The one on my right (the female) pulled her bikini top open and invited me to feel up her tits. Well, I paid this girl's bar fine, not only because she was a doll and did have some marvelous tits, but I wanted to get the fuck away from this katoey without making him/her "lose face". In the cab back to my hotel, the girl told me that the ladyboy asked her when she was changing if I had figured out that she was (or used to be) a he. She said no, no, no problem, again, so he wouldn't lose face. Weird scene, isn't it? I told my girl that I thought I had spotted three katoeys in the place, and she said, "We have six working there." As I have said, look for that Adam's apple, my friends. Listen to the voice. Look closely at the bone structure of the wrists and hands. And if in doubt, ask the mamasan, or just tell her, you don't mess with ladyboys. Because, god bless them, they are ALL OVER Thailand.